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Author Topic: Fish ethics, fish google, fish white hats. Random SEO thoughts.  (Read 938 times)
morphy
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« on: November 21, 2007, 01:11:17 PM »

Hello folks.

As some of you might know, I started in this business as a PPC guy. However, I feel now that paying for traffic is the dumbest thing I ever done.
I jumped into SEO, and it's damn fishing great. This thread is just some random SEO thoughts I have in mind, remember plz that I'm new to this. So I'll be glad to stand corrected.

First of all I don't believe in colors when it comes to SEO, so don't ask me about ethics or shit. you wanna rank, you wanna make money, I don't give a shit what/how are you doing it. I don't believe in SPAM, what you guys call spam, is just the automation of what you call white hat techniques. We are just a bunch of smart guys using PHP to make their lives easier  24. When I say "we" I'm talking bout myself and some of my buddies  24.

So here we go guys. Let's talk bout u so called "white hats". YOU are not a WH if you:

  • If you submit your own articles to digg (take that DD  24)
  • If you spam put your targeted kws in your header tags. In other words, if you build your pages with Gbot in mind.
  • If you read BH blogs/forums. Yeah, I know, you guys just want to know what the so called BHs are talking about.
  • If you purchase links, this one is fishing ridiculous. Anybody in the link selling/buying/trading industry, is not a fishing WH.  dry
  • If you have a link farm; a network of sites just for the sake of links.
  • If you spam post on blogs/forums for the sake of links. Some of your link building techniques really make me laugh, I don't see how that could be considered white.
  • If you try to rank your lens on squidoo.com; parasites
The list is long, and the questionable techniques are a lot.

The last one reminds me of an Aaron Wall post (SEObook.com), where he gives you guys some parasites and authority abuse ideas  Grin. Rand from SEOmoz, asked him about a list of domains that he feels have the strongest ability to rank for UGC profiles or pages.

This was his reply:


   
Quote
* I like Work.com a bunch. Part of that is because if your topic does really well it can get a cross promo on Business.com. Others pay $199 a year for a link, and you can put a half dozen in your article and pay a writer a one time fee of $199 or less.
    * Youtube is great given that Google owns it and is mixing it in universal search.
    * Wikipedia is wonderful if you can pull it, but people may edit that into a negative page, so there is a risk there too.
    * Since many popular bloggers are pushing Twitter right now that is probably quite effective, and on the upward slope. StumbleUpon is also heading in that same direction.
    * I have seen spam pages and regurgitated search results from newtworks like IGN and sites like Weather.com frank for competitive phrases. Easy to find the flavor of the moment stuff by just doing a few longtail searches in consumer finance or searching for things like buy Viagra.
    * Some of the everyone sit around and make content sites like eHow, Wikihow, and Associated Content do well. I actually found a real useful article from Associated Content in Google's SERPs just yesterday. Smiley
    * The QnA services like Yahoo! Answers are powerful.
    * Delicious is pretty easy to spam to flow link equity internally to a profile page that matches your brand name.
      I see a lot of Digg profiles in the serp, and see Redit ranking too, though typically not quite as well.
    * DomainTools has great authority, I also have seen Quantcast and Spyfu ranking better for URL like queries recently.

All of what he listed is great, and we/u can exploit  Wink
I think the authority (ab)use is great in this business, cuz now G can "penalize" your site, or mark it as a low quality for many many reasons. So taking advantage of the authority of some sites might be an option for quick results. It is true that it's much more easier to rank new sites right now, but the G spam/low quality checkers list gets larger and larger. And to name just a few of what can affect your rankings:

  • Aggressive ads serving/placement, 'specially when it comes to Adsense. In other words, G penalize sites that have no purpose other than ads.
  • No privacy, contact us, about us pages. Yes it is true.
  • Duplicate page titles, duplicate pages, duplicate content.
  • Your www and non-www both getting indexed.
  • A high bounce rate; people clicking the back button once they visit your site, to go back to the search results.
  • Privacy whois, it is not a flag by its self. But if combined with other spam positive checks, it might be a problem.  stupe
  • Bad domain history.
  • No outbound links.
  • Linking to other low quality sites.
  • Lack of links from social networks/sites.
  • A high speed link building rate.
  • A high link exchange rate.
  • Cross linking.
  • Same link sources if you have a network of sites.
  • Links with the same anchor.
  • No deep linking.
  • Same site structure if you have a sites network.
  • High link churn; your links/anchor change very often over time.
  • High keyword density.
  • High dead links rate.
  • Non SEO friendly URLs.
  • You have a lot of bad neighbors on the same IP/NS.
...The list is really long, and usually takes just some common sense to know what might hurt your rankings. What I'm trying to say here, is what Quadszilla (SEOblackhat.com) said on his blog a coouple weeks ago:

Quote
Clearly the shift for webmasters is and must continue to be to make any black hat efforts look more white hat. It’s only spam if it looks and smells like spam; it’s only black hat if you call it black hat. The old school, ugly / high click through MFA sites are on the way out. The new school is the “content remix” on trusted domains. Make the user experience a good one and you and Google can continue to roll wheelbarrels of money to the bank together.

Plus you can get away with a lot more shit for a lot longer if the site doesn’t LOOK like spam. Heavy black hat stuff that looks like spam still works great, but it’s only lasting a few days when it’s really successful.

Ah btw this reminds me of the biggest SEO myths:

Pagerank and Nofollow.  24
Just some random thoughts I had this morning, and I wanted to share.
Have a good one.  Smiley


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xlspecial
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« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2007, 01:20:54 PM »

I like the way you think Morpheletti.

 piss2 google
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morphy
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« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2007, 01:38:39 PM »

 /2007/09/openhtmm-released.html  Angry  Wink
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markus
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« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2007, 07:49:30 AM »

Good comments - thanks for sharing
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IrishAffiliate
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2007, 02:48:34 PM »

Oh well... I still don't see why much of what you mention can't be effectively automated  19
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 10:39:41 AM »

Quote from: morphy link=topic=491.msg2574#msg2574
I feel now that paying for traffic is the dumbest thing I ever done.

HHmmmm.... I have lately been thinking the opposite.  I am so sick and bored with creating content for WH sites.  Takes forever, and is really boring.

I have been thinking of getting into PPC, .... you know, buy the traffic, fast results, sell something, build a "real" business...  that argument seems appealing.
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morphy
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 11:07:44 AM »

Quote from: morphy link=topic=491.msg2574#msg2574
I feel now that paying for traffic is the dumbest thing I ever done.

HHmmmm.... I have lately been thinking the opposite.  I am so sick and bored with creating content for WH sites.  Takes forever, and is really boring.
Like Irish said, automation is the key  19
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